Curse

Tenebrae · Jun 18, 2010, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by aspi

SoH on my ranger, I would love to see that

You can have it ... but use a melee weap. Yeah it would be cool on R and P but thats another matter.

fireflyry · Jun 18, 2010, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Perfection.

Until this is achieved I will not sleep or rest.

Morphy · Jun 18, 2010, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Stop calling it balance. What you guys are aiming at is powercreeping the shit out of skills.

Xiaquin · Jun 18, 2010, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

Elementalists need a way to get through HM*

Simplified and agreed. I revisited making a nuker and was sorely disappointed with how low the damage is, even on some high armor enemies in NM. At best you have to go Water hex or Earth and throw down wards to help the party. I would definitely like to see some armor penetration across the board. Glyphs could work, but I'd rather see Energy Storage functionality changed to reflect greater power with higher levels.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

Monks have the worst energy management of any caster in the game.

Again agree, but they have held up for as long as I've been playing. I like to think it gives a challenge and typically you do see a higher percentage of primary monks that know what they are doing. That's not to say I wouldn't welcome some e-management, since I think a lot of skills tend to stay off bars because the cost:reward isn't viable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

The PvE Ranger has some major issues.

I'm with you on NRs, traps and to a much lesser extent, BM, but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

Generally speaking, Rangers in PvE have only been good at two things; Barraging and Interrupting.

Spike? Daze? Conditions? Halfway functional as DPS with Needling.

NRs need a complete rework. Cast times are painful, recharges are ridiculous, and nearly all of them, in traditional groups, will harm you and your party as much as hurt the enemy.

I don't know what can save traps. I haven't seen a pug bring a trapper along to pull enemies into aggro since pre-Factions, and for good reason: it's slow.

Good points/ideas all around.

Lithril Ashwalker · Jun 18, 2010, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

Default PvE Balance: What else do you want to see?
So, now that the Great Big Mesmer Update is complete, Anet is working their way through Dervish improvements. In the meantime, however, are there any other pressing issues for PvE balance as a whole that you think need to be ironed out? With the new ability to split primary attributes between PvE and PvP, are there any that could use a tweak or two? Any individual attributes that need improvement, minor spot fixes to even a single skill, or entire classes that need serious tinkering?

Share your thoughts and ideas, all things PvE balance related.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Personal whims to follow. Can't have a balance thread posted without the author ranting and raving about his own ideas, now can we?

The three main things I would like to see are the following.

1) An end to the Healing Nuker and Nuking Healer absurdity.

In particular, I'm talking about the smiting monk being a better all around nuker than the average elementalist, and the ER infuser out healing any dedicated healing profession in the game. But while nerfing ER and making RoJ less of a dumbfire pure damage skill would help, it is a deeper problem than that.

Elementalists need a way to get through armor. HM's naturally high levels mean creatures have naturally more armor. Problem is, while fire/water/lightning/earth damage is thusly inhibited, holy/dark/shadow/chaos/untyped damage is not. The result is that the iconic nuker profession doesn't deal enough damage in HM to be competitive with other classes, who have AoE capabilities to deliver untyped damage all over the place.

Fortunately, rectifying this problem is relatively simple. Take a bunch of the underused skills, glyphs in particular, and change them around to provide degrees of armor penetration, linked to Energy Storage. Glyph of Elemental Power (made redundant by consumables) and Glyph of Essence (same result as Sacrifice, but generally inferior) would be perfect for this, as would a change to Intensity to make it provide armor penetration instead of a flat damage increase.

u answered your own question, no...lightning is armor penetration, HM...DA!... its meant to have more armor so no one can solo it easily. in nm there probably wouldn't be a problem

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

Meanwhile, Monks have the worst energy management of any caster in the game. Ritualists can siphon it from spirits, grant themselves double energy regeneration or restore it with a flick of the wrist. Mesmers can steal it, drain it, juggle it, manipulate it like a puppet. Elementalists can regain it, gain tax breaks on it or restore it. Necromancers have never had an empty energy pool in PvE in GW history, and wonder what everyone keeps fussing about. But Monks have absolutely nothing.

In part, this is as designed. Monks gain a lot of beneficial effects by giving up energy, bonding in particular, as well as some special enchantments that increase costs for higher yields. The problem is that monks who are NOT bonding and not using these special skills have squat when it comes to keeping their energy up. Whereas their counterpart healer class can slurp up energy from spirits, a healing or standard protection monk relies completely on a secondary profession merely to keep casting if the battle lasts any reasonable length of time.

Ergo, providing monks with ways to meet their energy needs (ones that do NOT work while bonding) would do wonders for making the class no longer bound in holy matrimony to other class's e-management skills.

divine favor ftw? and if a monk had skills to maintain energy without bonds...dont u think they could solo easily too?

Ratman · Jun 18, 2010, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by instanceskiller

First, Bestial Pounce...

I don't see the reasoning behind ending stances with your bow. It has absolutely no connection with a bestial pounce.

I admit it does sound a little bit random, but my main point was to link pet attacks and bow attacks. For al I care it would be "deal +... damage if target is casting a spell."

Quote:

Originally Posted by instanceskiller

Next, your famine...

I think this may just be a tad much overpowered in conjunction with heavy e-denial and exhaustion. Whilst it does bear some resemblance to real life famine, people can survive without food for a few days, but with your version of famine, they won't last 20 seconds! As well as this, it sounds like your justification for the energy gain when something dies is cannibalism.
If used in pvp, I think there might be some legal issues...

True true, my idea was more like a cow dies of starvation and suddenly there is cow meat on the menu for the hungry people and animals. Also as I said in the beginning of my post these changes are only for PvE. Your absolutely right it would be to powerfull in PvP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by instanceskiller

Next, your Melandru's resilience...

I don't why it would be a shout to be honest...can you imagine it? Charging into battle and shouting "Melandru's Resilience!" every 15 seconds? I think you perhaps wanted it classified as a enchant spell that enchants allies within earshot.

A shout seemed the most reasonable to me but hadn't thought of it that way. You definitely got a point there. An elite skill that affects all party members in earshot like Angelic Bond seems better.

Shriketalon · Jun 18, 2010, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

Stop calling it balance. What you guys are aiming at is powercreeping the shit out of skills.

Balance is relative.

Two twenty ton weights are in balance just as two feathers are in balance. PvE's balance depends not on the individual power level of the classes, but how their power relates to one another. Something is overpowered when it is vastly superior to everything else, something is underpowered when it is vastly inferior to everything else.

Yes, there has been power creep. But since the average level of power has increased and the new standard has become the norm, the classes now "out of balance" are the ones who have not received such treatment. Ergo, there are only two solutions; nerf the hell out of everything and rework every update in the past three years, or raise the three or four classes currently underperforming up to par. The latter is simpler, easier, and gets people far more excited about the game. It also means monsters of those particular types get far more threatening and dangerous, which helps make PvE play more exciting.

Cuilan · Jun 18, 2010, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Leave elementalists as is.

Buff paragons to give elementalists armor penetration.

Make scythe damage just as good as a dervish as an assassin. No over-buffing.

Give dervish more caster options like enchant bombing and other goodies. They once had a D/N Orders build...

Make ranger spirits useful. More often than not they have little or no effect. When they do, they benefit foes more. See Tranquility as an example with the White Mantle quests. Not often can one say "Hey, this spirit kinda fits my team. Imma adden it."

Leave DWG as is till Anet fixes the clipping problems with the Tormented weapons.

belshazaarswrath · Jun 18, 2010, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

1. Rangers need party support through nature rituals, so give them effects that are beneficial to a team. Energy denial is retarded in PvE, reducing healing is counterproductive, etc.

Super awesome ritual ideas

I like the one in there that has greater conflagration increase fire damage. That way bringing a ranger can help the ele's lack of damage.

Xenomortis · Jun 18, 2010, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Balance does not exist in really exist in PvE - certainly not in the way most appear to look at it.
PvE is built so that the players win. It is designed with the player's victory in mind.

"Balance" is when:
1. The majority of the community can complete anything without resorting to gimmicks or exploitation.
2. The better players complete content faster and more reliably than weaker players, who are slower, less effective and face a much greater risk of failure.
3. There is no dominance or complete lack of presence of particular professions in the meta game.

Power creep has a tendency to be destructive with regards to the above. The third condition and the second half of the second condition are where problems arise when you bring in power creep.

Age · Jun 18, 2010, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

So, now that the Great Big Mesmer Update is complete, Anet is working their way through Dervish improvements. In the meantime, however, are there any other pressing issues for PvE balance as a whole that you think need to be ironed out? With the new ability to split primary attributes between PvE and PvP, are there any that could use a tweak or two? Any individual attributes that need improvement, minor spot fixes to even a single skill, or entire classes that need serious tinkering?

Share your thoughts and ideas, all things PvE balance related.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Personal whims to follow. Can't have a balance thread posted without the author ranting and raving about his own ideas, now can we?

The three main things I would like to see are the following.

1) An end to the Healing Nuker and Nuking Healer absurdity.

In particular, I'm talking about the smiting monk being a better all around nuker than the average elementalist, and the ER infuser out healing any dedicated healing profession in the game. But while nerfing ER and making RoJ less of a dumbfire pure damage skill would help, it is a deeper problem than that.

How in which way neing a better nuker than an Ele and ER infuser Monks can still do it better?Monks haven't had any buffs in over 2 years and when it comes the Ranger Punishing Shots needs a buff.

MithranArkanere · Jun 18, 2010, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Something for elementalists. I have to go Air in PvE and HM because fire only servers to make enemies run around, they remove water hexes in no time, and earth is just too slow.
They could reduce the energy Energy storage gives per point from 3 to 2 or 1, and then getting an attunement-like effect that gives back energy when casting spells. Note that 'gives back' is not like 'cost less'. That's the ranger thing.
Or maybe changing Ether prism to turn all damage you deal into Chaos Damage for a few seconds, in exchange of getting exhaustion when it ends.
Or an unique way in the Energy Storage line to recover exhaustion more quickly that fails if Energy Storage is rank 4 or less.
OR make Ether Blast deal half the damage dealt to the target to adjacent foes if the target has less energy than you...

Dervishes and the Smiting and Beast Mastery lines could use some fun updates too.

belshazaarswrath · Jun 18, 2010, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Oh yea...wtf is up with Word of Censure. It'd be cool if that skill didn't suck too...

And Shield of Judgement has been useful for 55ing for years...why not make it useful for the rest of the game too?

Benderama · Jun 18, 2010, 07:36 PM // 19:36

buff para please, yes the derv is kinda boring (well for me) but the paragon is worse. didn't they get a "buff" witht eh rit, but that had very little effect, it would be simple though, just make less skills conditional, and have more skills that don't only affect paragons (who will be the least likely to need healing)

instanceskiller · Jun 18, 2010, 07:52 PM // 19:52

^ don't worry, if Anet are tackling issues in the order set out in the skill preview balance, then paras are right after Derv's. Since they said it will take months for the gvg update to come out, with a MAYBE for the derv update to be released with it, you only have to wait those MONTHS and then more MONTHS, and maybe more MONTHS if they don't release the derv update along with the gvg update. Basically, you shouldn't worry since Anet will get to paras later. Instead, you should be bored

Smith23 · Jun 18, 2010, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Water Magic is the most powerful magic wielded by Elementalists in PvE. I don't see why people say it's weak.

I would love them to find a way to justify the high energy cost / long recharge times of Earth Magic skills. Make the skills either do more like AoE or armor ignoring or at least tone down the energy cost or shorten recharge times and make signets more useful.

I agree with everyone about the Paragon. When I first got Nightfall I was overall disappointed on how that class was bland, boring and all most useless.

UnChosen · Jun 18, 2010, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

1) An end to the Healing Nuker and Nuking Healer absurdity.[/U]

In particular, I'm talking about the smiting monk being a better all around nuker than the average elementalist, and the ER infuser out healing any dedicated healing profession in the game. But while nerfing ER and making RoJ less of a dumbfire pure damage skill would help, it is a deeper problem than that.

Elementalists need a way to get through armor. HM's naturally high levels mean creatures have naturally more armor. Problem is, while fire/water/lightning/earth damage is thusly inhibited, holy/dark/shadow/chaos/untyped damage is not. The result is that the iconic nuker profession doesn't deal enough damage in HM to be competitive with other classes, who have AoE capabilities to deliver untyped damage all over the place.

Fortunately, rectifying this problem is relatively simple. Take a bunch of the underused skills, glyphs in particular, and change them around to provide degrees of armor penetration, linked to Energy Storage. Glyph of Elemental Power (made redundant by consumables) and Glyph of Essence (same result as Sacrifice, but generally inferior) would be perfect for this, as would a change to Intensity to make it provide armor penetration instead of a flat damage increase.

Definitely agree on this. RoJ puts everything that the elementalists have to shame. I don't really agree with the glyph solution though, because most eles already carry a sh*t load of energy management skills and cast time/recharge reduction skills on their bar already. Having another skill they have to add to their bar would just lock the profession into spamming Searing Flames while leaving all of their other less spammable skills useless. In addition, you can't have two glyphs at once, so eles would have to sacrifice their glyph of lesser energy. I would rather them buff the skills themselves, or put an armor ignoring effect onto their primary attribute or skills they already bring.

belshazaarswrath · Jun 18, 2010, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smith23

Water Magic is the most powerful magic wielded by Elementalists in PvE. I don't see why people say it's weak.

Generally high recharge and energy costs. Low damage output and slowdown is useful but there of better ways of limiting movement in earth magic. It's generally outdone by all other forms of elementalists magic...

Air magic is probably the most useful magic an ele can use in pve at the moment. Blinding surge is extremely useful and you can generally deal a good bit of damage in hm with air skills.

But if they make all the types of magic have armor penetration air magic will be overshadowed by everything else...so they'd have to make air magic EVEN more effective if they decided to add armor penetration to everything.

UnChosen · Jun 18, 2010, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Something for elementalists. I have to go Air in PvE and HM because fire only servers to make enemies run around, they remove water hexes in no time, and earth is just too slow.

Let's just say I had more success with an earth warding build with a level 0 lava font to cast "terror" on enemies in comparison to trying to make a decent damage build.

J I L T · Jun 18, 2010, 10:48 PM // 22:48

I'd like to see a buff to healing and damage reduction across all the classes. Every major buff has been about offense lately even the next monk buff is targeted towards smiting prayers which just doesn't make any sense. Why make monks better at role they're supposed to suck at when paragons, spirit spammers and mms are putting protection monks to shame?